Train-ferry-train fares between Edinburgh & Dublin?

[David Marsh]

Hi,

Does anybody know how much a through train-ferry-train return ticket
between Edinburgh and Dublin costs (if it's possible to buy such a thing)?

ScotRail have some quite reasonably-priced Edinburgh-Stranraer-Belfast
tickets, and, on the net, can provide journey details as far as Belfast;
and I can separately find the price and times of Belfast - Dublin
tickets from IE.

I can even find journey details for the _complete_ journey from TheTrainLine
(which is fairly impressive in itself), although only via Holyhead,
strangely not via Belfast, although ScotRail/QJump do know about that route!?

But TheTrainLine falls down when I attempt to find prices for such a
ticket (a bit strange if it does exist in its system). Does anybody know
(out of curiosity) how much it (via Holyhead) would cost?

IE don't seem to provide online booking (as yet), unfortunately.


I'm curious as to how much a through ticket (via Belfast) would cost if
it does exist, or whether my only option would be to buy two separate
tickets (Ed - B, B - D).



Having said that, unfortunately, this may turn out just to be a
hypothetical exercise, since, while Ed - B by train is reasonably-priced,
the extra ¤46/~£30 from B - D does rather tend to make
Ryan-welovewheelchairs-air look the more feasible option.. :-(

Oh well, I did try to do the right thing.
Looks like I'm blowing this year's carbon allowance in one go. :(
Just as well that I've stacked up more than enough credits over the past
few years that I can just about allow myself to do it ;-)


David.

[James]

Seems to me it would still make better sense to fly? Ryanair
("Ryan-welovewheelchairs-air" ) do seem to have very cheap flights some
days. If not I see that Stena Line (on their Q&A page) have a section on
Rail-sea tickets with a phone number:
http://tinyurl.com/39joq

"Stena Line have joined forces with various rail operators to provide
inclusive rail-sea tickets. Rail-Sea tickets offer outstanding value and can
be purchased from any UK station through to ports or stations in Northern
Ireland, Republic of Ireland and the Netherlands. Fares are inclusive of the
ferry crossing. Rail-sea tickets can also be purchased from our ports in
Ireland to any UK station.
Rail-sea tickets cannot be purchased online. To purchase your tickets call
Stena Line on 08705 455 455 or visit your mainline station."

Post by David Marsh
Hi,
Does anybody know how much a through train-ferry-train return ticket
between Edinburgh and Dublin costs (if it's possible to buy such a thing)?

[David Marsh]

[Text interleaved/in conversation order: read to end for all comments]
begin quote from James in scot.general
about: Re: Train-ferry-train fares between Edinburgh & Dublin?

Post by James
Seems to me it would still make better sense to fly? Ryanair
("Ryan-welovewheelchairs-air" ) do seem to have very cheap flights some
days.

Unfortunately, it looks like you're right, but I was trying to avoid flying
if I could..

Post by James
If not I see that Stena Line (on their Q&A page) have a section on
http://tinyurl.com/39joq

Thanks for that, that's useful to know for the future.

But why can't the rail and ferry companies get together to make that kind
of information easy to find out? It shouldn't be beyond the scope of rail
journey planners to recognise journeys that involve ferry crossings and, if
they can't provide the answers themselves, automatically produce links to the
relevant ferry operator websites. By not regarding themselves as all
parts of an integrated system, they _all_ lose out.

Unfortunately, it's not surprising that budget air travel has, err,
taken off, if their rivals don't make a decent effort to make information
available. Ryanair's online enquiry/booking service is wonderfully
simple in comparison.


David.

[Alan J. Flavell]

Post by David Marsh
But why can't the rail and ferry companies get together to make that kind
of information easy to find out?

At a guess, they misunderstood the EU directive, and decided they were
supposed to compete with each other. Though how you'd get from
Holyhead to Dublin by rail, or from Edinburgh to Stranraer by ferry,
is a bit of a puzzle. SCNR ;-)

Post by David Marsh
It shouldn't be beyond the scope of rail journey planners to
recognise journeys that involve ferry crossings and, if they can't
provide the answers themselves, automatically produce links to the
relevant ferry operator websites.

I think pretty much throughout my lifetime they've been steadily
disengaging from cooperation with ferries. Dover Marine was already a
wasteland when I used it in the early 1960's, to take just one
example, and Harwich - Hook, though there in theory as a through rail
link for much of the time, was less than entirely satisfactory in
practice.

I think what it comes down to is that those with sufficient initiative
to find out about such connections will also have enough initiative to
cope with the rough edges, but there's nothing worse than referring a
naive passenger to some unrelated company and then finding they expect
you to pay compensation for the failure to connect. So the companies
prefer to keep stumm, just in case, and in a way (from their point of
view) it's understandable, even if it's deplorable.

Post by David Marsh
By not regarding themselves as all parts of an integrated system,
they _all_ lose out.

There's something in what you say, of course. But it doesn't take
many compensation claims to eat into the meagre profits of such
integration. So, IMHO it's hopeless to expect individual companies to
do this amongst themselves: it needs some kind of co-ordination body
that's even willing to take responsibility for smoothing those rough
edges.

Maybe the individual companies stand to gain more by selling-off the
land than they ever made on fares? After all, it's the duty of every
Board to make money for the shareholders. If that means s*d the
customers, then that's what they have to do. The law actually
*requires* it of them.

Post by David Marsh
Unfortunately, it's not surprising that budget air travel has, err,
taken off, if their rivals don't make a decent effort to make information
available.

OTOH, not everyone is entirely happy with their habit of landing at
obscure airports many miles away (even, in some cases, in a different
country) from the stated destination, and having some obscure bus
connections to the conurbations. (I'm not talking about Prestwick, of
course).

[Ian McMillan]

Post by David Marsh
Hi,
Does anybody know how much a through train-ferry-train return ticket
between Edinburgh and Dublin costs (if it's possible to buy such a thing)?

http://www.ryanair.ie may be easier, quicker, and cheaper.

[Barry Salter]

Post by David Marsh
Does anybody know how much a through train-ferry-train return ticket
between Edinburgh and Dublin costs (if it's possible to buy such a thing)?

A quick look at the "Shipping Links" section of the "Rail Links Manual"
(downloadable as PDFs from the Travel Agents section of the ATOC
website) suggests that such a fare IS available via Stranraer (Stena) to
Belfast, and then connecting rail services to Dublin Heuston.

Edinburgh is in UK Zone B, Dublin is in Irish Zone 3, giving the
following through fares:

Standard Single : £53.00
High Saver Return : £84.00
Low Saver Return : £71.00

Ticket Validity:

Standard Single: Valid to and from any port or station in Northern
Ireland, on date shown on ticket; and to and from any station in the
Republic of Ireland on any day within 2 calendar months.

High/Low Saver Return: Valid to and from Northern Ireland, for outward
and return travel on the date shown on the ticket and on any other day
within one calendar month; and to and from the Republic of Ireland, for
outward and return travel on any day within 1 calendar month. (NB: Low
Savers are NOT valid for travel on any Friday, Saturdays in July and
August, or other "Peak" days).

HTH,

Barry

[James]

Post by Barry Salter
A quick look at the "Shipping Links" section of the "Rail Links Manual"
(downloadable as PDFs from the Travel Agents section of the ATOC
website) suggests that such a fare IS available via Stranraer (Stena) to
Belfast, and then connecting rail services to Dublin Heuston.

Very strange, all Belfast - Dublin trains arrive at Dublin Connolly.
Trains for the south and west use Dublin Heuston.

[Paul Cunnane]

Post by James
Trains for the south and west use Dublin Heuston.

...except Sligo, which uses Connolly.

[Barry Salter]

Post by James

Post by Barry Salter
A quick look at the "Shipping Links" section of the "Rail Links Manual"
(downloadable as PDFs from the Travel Agents section of the ATOC
website) suggests that such a fare IS available via Stranraer (Stena) to
Belfast, and then connecting rail services to Dublin Heuston.

Very strange, all Belfast - Dublin trains arrive at Dublin Connolly.
Trains for the south and west use Dublin Heuston.

Yes...My mistake. I misread the map in the Rail Links Manual and failed
to spot Dublin Connolly, which is in Irish Zone 2, making the pricing as
follows:

Standard Single: £45.00
Low Saver Return: £76.00
High Saver Return: £65.00

HTH,

Barry

[Peter Masson]

Post by Barry Salter
Low Saver Return: £76.00
High Saver Return: £65.00

Shome mishtake shurely?

Peter

[Ulf Kutzner]

Post by Peter Masson

Post by Barry Salter
Low Saver Return: £76.00
High Saver Return: £65.00

Shome mishtake shurely?

High savings?

Regards, ULF

[David Marsh]

[Text interleaved/in conversation order: read to end for all comments]
begin quote from Barry Salter in scot.general
about: Re: Train-ferry-train fares between Edinburgh & Dublin?

Post by Barry Salter

Post by Barry Salter
A quick look at the "Shipping Links" section of the "Rail Links Manual"
(downloadable as PDFs from the Travel Agents section of the ATOC
website)

Useful to know. Not the first (or even last) place I would have thought
of looking, though. The traincos _really_ don't make things easy for
would-be passengers, duh.

Have they ever done any usability testing on their own websites?
An obvious question for them to ask would be: can a would-be passenger
find out information about timetables and fares for all standard
journeys, and either timetables/fares or a further point of contact (eg,
weblinks) for *any* not-utterly-uncommon 'complex' journeys that a
passenger using our services is likely to make?

Post by Barry Salter

Post by Barry Salter
suggests that such a fare IS available via Stranraer (Stena) to
Belfast, and then connecting rail services to Dublin [Connolly -
corrected].

Many thanks for taking the time to seek this out and look it up.

Post by Barry Salter
Standard Single: £45.00
Low Saver Return: £76.00 ^ flipped, I presume?
High Saver Return: £65.00 V

Bizarre. For some reason, even the low fare is slightly more expensive than
separate Edinburgh - Belfast (ScotRail) and Belfast - Dublin (IE) tickets.

Oh well, Ryanair can get me there and back for about 40 quid directly
from Edinburgh, so, with reluctance, it looks like it's my turn to burn
up the atmosphere this time..


Thanks all,


David.

[Ross]

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 14:37:49 +0100, David Marsh wrote in

Post by David Marsh
[Text interleaved/in conversation order: read to end for all comments]
begin quote from Barry Salter in scot.general
about: Re: Train-ferry-train fares between Edinburgh & Dublin?

Post by Barry Salter
A quick look at the "Shipping Links" section of the "Rail Links Manual"
(downloadable as PDFs from the Travel Agents section of the ATOC
website)

Useful to know. Not the first (or even last) place I would have thought
of looking, though. The traincos _really_ don't make things easy for
would-be passengers, duh.
Have they ever done any usability testing on their own websites?

They don't need to. The ATOC website as a whole doesn't seem to be
intended to be used by the general public; it strikes me as an
intranet for those who aren't on the network.

The vast majority of information that gets referred to on these groups
is in the Travel Trade section and I think it's reasonable to assume
that it's really there for the use of Rail Appointed Travel Agents
rather than Usenauts, for all we find it useful.

Post by David Marsh
An obvious question for them to ask would be: can a would-be passenger
find out information about timetables and fares for all standard
journeys, and either timetables/fares or a further point of contact (eg,
weblinks) for *any* not-utterly-uncommon 'complex' journeys that a
passenger using our services is likely to make?

Well, that's probably every railway in Europe failed, then.

From personal experience: SNCF's site has mardies and won't quote
fares when it's sulking; SNCB/NMBS's won't provide any cross-border or
international fares at all, ditto the HAFAS engine used by DBAG.

[Hammy]

Post by Ross
They don't need to. The ATOC website as a whole doesn't seem to be
intended to be used by the general public; it strikes me as an
intranet for those who aren't on the network.
The vast majority of information that gets referred to on these groups
is in the Travel Trade section and I think it's reasonable to assume
that it's really there for the use of Rail Appointed Travel Agents
rather than Usenauts, for all we find it useful.

Post by David Marsh
An obvious question for them to ask would be: can a would-be passenger
find out information about timetables and fares for all standard
journeys, and either timetables/fares or a further point of contact (eg,
weblinks) for *any* not-utterly-uncommon 'complex' journeys that a
passenger using our services is likely to make?

Well, that's probably every railway in Europe failed, then.
From personal experience: SNCF's site has mardies and won't quote
fares when it's sulking; SNCB/NMBS's won't provide any cross-border or
international fares at all, ditto the HAFAS engine used by DBAG.

The trouble is Ross, we don't know if your telling the truth or not !!!!!!

[Ross]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:07:59 +0100, Hammy wrote in
[...]

Post by Hammy

Post by Ross
From personal experience: SNCF's site has mardies and won't quote
fares when it's sulking; SNCB/NMBS's won't provide any cross-border or
international fares at all, ditto the HAFAS engine used by DBAG.

The trouble is Ross, we don't know if your telling the truth or not !!!!!!

Well, that depends on whether you believe Judas was also telling the
truth! ;o)

[unknown]

Post by Ross
From personal experience: SNCF's site has mardies and won't quote
fares when it's sulking; SNCB/NMBS's won't provide any cross-border or
international fares at all, ditto the HAFAS engine used by DBAG.

Hafas does now give fare for some international journeys in and out of
Germany.

Regards,

Rian

[Aidan Stanger]

What aboout via Liverpool? I suspect it would be cheaper (if you can put
up with the much longer boat journey).

[Barry Salter]

Post by Aidan Stanger
What aboout via Liverpool? I suspect it would be cheaper (if you can put
up with the much longer boat journey).

The through Rail-Sea-Rail routes between the mainland and Ireland are
Stranraer/Troon to Belfast, Holyhead to Dublin/Dun Laoghaire,
Fishguard/Pembroke Dock to Rosslare and Swansea to Cork.

For Fishguard/Pembroke Dock to Rosslare, Edinburgh is in UK Zone F and
Dublin is in Irish Zone 2, giving the following fares:

From Pembroke Dock via Irish Ferries:

Super Economy Single : £ 92.00
Super Economy Return : £ 93.00
Economy Single : £105.80
Economy Return : £106.00

NB: Neither Arriva Trains Wales nor Irish Ferries provide road transfer
between Pembroke Dock station and the ferry port, a distance of
approximately 2 miles.

From Fishguard via Stena Line

Super Economy Return : £106.00
Economy Return : £120.00

Ticket Validity:

Economy Single ECS & Return ECR

+ Available for travel to/from Ireland on any date. Outward
travel must be made on date shown on ticket. Return
travel valid any date within 1 calendar month of date
shown on ticket.

+ Tickets without a through reservation to/from Rosslare
Harbour are not valid for travel.

Super Economy Single SES & Return SER

+ Available on off peak daytime sailings, and on all night
time sailings (irrespective of peak dates). Outward travel
must be made on the date shown on the ticket. Return
travel valid within 1 calendar month of the date shown
on ticket.

+ Tickets without a through reservation to/from Rosslare
Harbour are not valid for travel.

Peak Days 'til the end of June are as follows:

April 30th to May 3rd, May 28th to May 31st, June 4th to June 6th, June
25th to June 27th.

For Swansea-Cork, Edinburgh's in UK Zone H, Dublin's in Irish Zone 3,
giving the following:

Standard Single : £119.00
Low Saver Return : £128.00
High Saver Return : £148.00
First Single : £148.00
First Return : £296.00

Ticket Validity:

First Class Single FTS & Return FTR

• Available for travel in First Class accommodation to/from
Ireland on any date. Single tickets are valid on date
shown on ticket. Return tickets are valid for 1 calendar
month from the date shown on the ticket.

• First Class return fares can be calculated by doubling the
First Class Single price.

Standard Single STS

• Available for travel to/ from Ireland on any date. Valid on
date shown on ticket.

High Saver Return HSR

• Available on all dates for travel to/ from Ireland. Valid
within 1 calendar month of date shown on the ticket.

Low Saver Return LSR

• Available for travel to/from Ireland on off peak dates.
Outward journey must be made on the date shown on
the ticket. Return valid within 1 calendar month of date
shown on ticket.

For journeys via Holyhead, Edinburgh is in UK Zone E, Dublin in Irish
Zone 1.

There's a ticket called the "Dublin Duo", which has to be booked by 2pm
the day before travel, return within one month, allowing two people to
travel together for a low price. (Subject to availability). The fare to
Dublin City is £99.00 (£97.00 to Dun Laoghaire or Dublin Ferryport).

Normal fares are as follows (single fares are £1 less than the return):

via Stena High Speed Ship to Dun Laoghaire

Super Economy Return : £ 68.00
Economy Return : £ 87.00
Standard Open Return : £100.00

via Irish Ferries to Dublin Ferryport

Super Economy Return : £ 76.00
Economy Return : £ 97.00
Standard Open Return : £110.00

Ticket validity:

Economy/Super Economy Single/Return:

Outward travel on date shown on ticket, return within one calendar
month.

Break of journey permitted on return leg only

Open Single/Return:

Outward and return travel within two months of date on ticket

Break of journey permitted on both legs

Sailings where Open fares apply on Peak days:

From Holyead:

13:45 Stena HSS
14:50 Irish Ferries swift

From Ireland:

11:10 Stena HSS
12:15 Irish Ferries swift
16:05 Stena HSS

Peak Days 'til end of September:

May 1st to 3rd, 28th to 31st
June 4th to 6th, 25th to 27th
July and August: All Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays
September 3rd to 5th

Finally, to complete the set, here's the Troon-Belfast Seacat details:

As with Stranraer-Belfast, Edinburgh's in UK Zone B, Dublin is in Irish
Zone 2.

Standard Single: £40.00
Low Saver Return: £62.00
High Saver Return: £67.00

HTH,

Barry

[Aidan Stanger]

Post by Barry Salter
The through Rail-Sea-Rail routes between the mainland and Ireland are
Stranraer/Troon to Belfast, Holyhead to Dublin/Dun Laoghaire,
Fishguard/Pembroke Dock to Rosslare and Swansea to Cork.

But Liverpool does have ferries to Dublin, doesn't it? It seems worth
investigating even if you can't do it all on one ticket.

[Barry Salter]

Post by Aidan Stanger

Post by Barry Salter
The through Rail-Sea-Rail routes between the mainland and Ireland are
Stranraer/Troon to Belfast, Holyhead to Dublin/Dun Laoghaire,
Fishguard/Pembroke Dock to Rosslare and Swansea to Cork.

But Liverpool does have ferries to Dublin, doesn't it? It seems worth
investigating even if you can't do it all on one ticket.

Sort of...Norse Merchant operate ferries from Birkenhead to Dublin, but
there don't appear to be any foot passenger fares. They also operate
Birkenhead to Belfast, for which there are foot passenger fares.

Adult Single ranges from £25 to £40, depending on time of year and
sailing time, and all fares include either a 4 course dinner and
breakfast or 3 course lunch and afternoon snack.

Tickets on the Enterprise trains from Belfast to Dublin are £22 Single,
£32 for a 1 month Return, £44 for a 3 month Return in "Enterprise"
Class, and £36 Single, £57 for a 1 month Return, £72 for a 3 month
Return in First Plus.

Or you can take Ulsterbus service 200 for £13.10 Single, £17.90 1 Month
Return.

HTH,

Barry

[Neil Williams]

Post by Barry Salter
Sort of...Norse Merchant operate ferries from Birkenhead to Dublin, but
there don't appear to be any foot passenger fares. They also operate
Birkenhead to Belfast, for which there are foot passenger fares.

Don't Isle of Man Steam Packet operate Liverpool-Dublin by SeaCat?

Neil

[Snowbat]

Post by Neil Williams
Don't Isle of Man Steam Packet operate Liverpool-Dublin by SeaCat?

http://www.steam-packet.com/SeaCat/RedHotDeals/liv-dub+red+hot+deals.htm

[Ulf Kutzner]

Post by Barry Salter
Low Saver Return LSR
• Available for travel to/from Ireland on off peak dates.
Outward journey must be made on the date shown on
the ticket. Return valid within 1 calendar month of date
shown on ticket.

Good point. Would lime to use such tickets on the Continent.

Regards & F#up2, ULF