Edinburgh recommends preferred supplier for trams

[David M]

According to BBC News, Spanish company CAF has been recommended by TIE
as the preferred supplier of trams for Edinburgh's new tramway system.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7004214.stm


There's a slick, but short, promotional video showing what is presumably
the model that will be supplied to the city. The tram looks quite
attractive in the current "Lothian Buses" livery, with a happy
Turbostar-style 'face' at the front and rear [1], but what seems to be
most apparent is that these really are 'street trains', with the
7-section articulated tram being quite some length in total!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/nol/newsid_7000000/newsid_7004900?redirect=7004928.stm&news=1&bbram=1&nbram=1&bbwm=1&nbwm=1

(link accessible via article if line-broken)


[1] ..and why can't I anthropomorphise my vehicles if I want to? :)

[Neil Williams]

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:05:50 +0100, David M

Post by David M
There's a slick, but short, promotional video showing what is presumably
the model that will be supplied to the city. The tram looks quite
attractive in the current "Lothian Buses" livery

I'm not a great fan of that livery - I find it looks a bit messy. I
bet they'd have looked very nice in the classic Lothian Buses livery
instead.

Very subjective, though, and having them in the same livery as the
buses will give a very nice, European-style feeling of integrated
transport. Let's hope they're integrated in other, more important
ways as well!

Neil

[Charles Ellson]

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:05:50 +0100, David M

Post by David M
According to BBC News, Spanish company CAF has been recommended by TIE
as the preferred supplier of trams for Edinburgh's new tramway system.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7004214.stm
There's a slick, but short, promotional video showing what is presumably
the model that will be supplied to the city. The tram looks quite
attractive in the current "Lothian Buses" livery, with a happy
Turbostar-style 'face' at the front and rear [1], but what seems to be
most apparent is that these really are 'street trains', with the
7-section articulated tram being quite some length in total!

Possibly not that long as it appears to be made of relatively short
sections, a bit like Nottingham trams which have some tight corners to
go round.
<snip>

[soup]

Post by Charles Ellson
Possibly not that long as it appears to be made of relatively short
sections,

40m = 131¼ feet seems long enough to me.

[Paul Scott]

Post by Charles Ellson
Possibly not that long as it appears to be made of relatively short
sections,

40m = 131Πfeet seems long enough to me.

The length of a two car railway train. All over the rail network passengers
are complaining that they aren't big enough.

Paul

[soup]

Post by Paul Scott
The length of a two car railway train. All over the rail network passengers
are complaining that they aren't big enough.

There is a world of difference between a railway track and a city centre
street.

[Geoff Pearson]

Post by soup

Post by Paul Scott
The length of a two car railway train. All over the rail network
passengers are complaining that they aren't big enough.

There is a world of difference between a railway track and a city centre
street.
--
'S rioghal mo dhream
Ciamar a tha sibh
www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

They won't carry many people in total and won't go anywhere that isn't
already better served by buses - quite useless and a waste of taxpayers'
cash.

[a***@hotmail.com]

Post by Geoff Pearson
They won't carry many people in total and won't go anywhere that isn't
already better served by buses - quite useless and a waste of taxpayers'
cash.

Have you been to other European cities that use trams? Damned-sight
faster than buses, and well yes, they can go where buses can't go.

(Like old railway lines; Edinburgh's littered with them)

Angus

[soup]

Post by a***@hotmail.com
Have you been to other European cities that use trams? Damned-sight
faster than buses, and well yes, they can go where buses can't go.
(Like old railway lines; Edinburgh's littered with them)

Seen reports and they all seem to concentrate on trams coming from
Haymarket then along Princes' street, what old railway lines are there?

[charles]

Post by soup

Post by a***@hotmail.com
Have you been to other European cities that use trams? Damned-sight
faster than buses, and well yes, they can go where buses can't go.
(Like old railway lines; Edinburgh's littered with them)

Seen reports and they all seem to concentrate on trams coming from
Haymarket then along Princes' street, what old railway lines are there?

plenty in the suburbs.

[soup]

Post by charles

Post by soup
Seen reports and they all seem to concentrate on trams coming from
Haymarket then along Princes' street, what old railway lines are there?

plenty in the suburbs.

Charles I live in Balerno a suburb just on the outskirts of Edinburgh
what rail line do you suggest "they" use out here? "They" would have
terrible trouble trying to use the old track bed it is now the Water of
Leith Walkway, the only way out here I can invisage is up the Lanark
road (passed Kingsknowe)
Similarly my mum stays at Gilmerton Dykes. Grannie stays at Southhouse
how do you suggest trams get up Liberton Brae or Kirkbrae?

[charles]

Post by soup

Post by charles

Post by soup
Seen reports and they all seem to concentrate on trams coming from
Haymarket then along Princes' street, what old railway lines are there?

plenty in the suburbs.

Charles I live in Balerno a suburb just on the outskirts of Edinburgh
what rail line do you suggest "they" use out here?

I don't believe any tram service is planned for your part of the city.

Post by soup
"They" would have terrible trouble trying to use the old track bed it is
now the Water of Leith Walkway,

"They" are planning to use the old railway line at Roseburn which is now a
"walkway", so why not to Balerno if that's what "they" want.

Post by soup
the only way out here I can invisage is
up the Lanark road (passed Kingsknowe) Similarly my mum stays at
Gilmerton Dykes. Grannie stays at Southhouse how do you suggest trams
get up Liberton Brae or Kirkbrae?

Trams used to get up Liberton Brae. The No 1 went from Costorphine to
Liberton, AFAIR.

[soup]

Post by charles
I don't believe any tram service is planned for your part of the city.

If it was, which of your "plenty in the suburbs" rail lines/ways would
they use?

Post by charles
"They" are planning to use the old railway line at Roseburn which is now a
"walkway", so why not to Balerno if that's what "they" want.

I didn't say it was impossible just that "they" would have terrible trouble.

Post by charles
Trams used to get up Liberton Brae. The No 1 went from Costorphine to
Liberton, AFAIR.

All well and good, but you said there were lots of rail lines/ways etc
in the suburbs but I can't remember any out that way at all. I was more
wondering what rail way/line the trams would use to get up Liberton brae
rather than the trams actualy getting up the hill.

[TheMgt]

Post by soup
Charles I live in Balerno a suburb just on the outskirts of Edinburgh
what rail line do you suggest "they" use out here? "They" would have
terrible trouble trying to use the old track bed it is now the Water of
Leith Walkway

The Water of Leith Walkway isn't an old track bed.

[Kenneth MacDonald]

Post by soup
Charles I live in Balerno a suburb just on the outskirts of
Edinburgh what rail line do you suggest "they" use out here?
"They" would have terrible trouble trying to use the old track
bed it is now the Water of Leith Walkway

TheMgt> The Water of Leith Walkway isn't an old track bed.

It is from where it crosses the Union Canal to Balerno (well, just
short of Balerno). If you walk/cycle along it you go through the old
Colinton, Juniper Green and Currie stations.

Cheers,

Kenny.

[a***@hotmail.com]

Post by Kenneth MacDonald
It is from where it crosses the Union Canal to Balerno (well, just
short of Balerno). If you walk/cycle along it you go through the old
Colinton, Juniper Green and Currie stations.

Great for slightly unfit cyclists wanting to cycle into town!

What's surprising is how quickly nature has completely taken over the
route. After buying a local history book from Currie post office, I
took myself along the cycle path, and stood at the sames spot as the
books' photos. What was once a nigh industrial landscape is now awash
with trees and teeming with wildlife; not that long ago either -- it's
quite hard to imagine.

Angus

[soup]

Post by a***@hotmail.com
Great for slightly unfit cyclists wanting to cycle into town!

Going into town I use the Lanark road (you can get a heck of a speed up
going down passed Kingsknowe and Spylaw).
Coming back I tend to do the slightly unfit cyclist bit of using the
walkway it goes uphill more gradually than the Lanark road.

[TheMgt]

Post by Kenneth MacDonald

Post by soup
Charles I live in Balerno a suburb just on the outskirts of
Edinburgh what rail line do you suggest "they" use out here?
"They" would have terrible trouble trying to use the old track
bed it is now the Water of Leith Walkway

TheMgt> The Water of Leith Walkway isn't an old track bed.
It is from where it crosses the Union Canal to Balerno (well, just
short of Balerno). If you walk/cycle along it you go through the old
Colinton, Juniper Green and Currie stations.

Oops, there I go shooting my mouth off without checking first. According
to my 1951 map of Edinburgh the bridge just up from the start of
Redhall Bank Road is where the line went after leaving the main one.

[soup]

Post by TheMgt
The Water of Leith Walkway isn't an old track bed.

The bit downstream of the visitor centre at Inglis green may well not be
but the part up at the Juniper green, Currie, Balerno bit is We still
have an area called "station loan" at Balerno (were the train station
used to be for the line that ran up the Water of Leith). The Colinton
tunnel was also built for a train to go through.

[a***@hotmail.com]

Post by soup
The bit downstream of the visitor centre at Inglis green may well not be
but the part up at the Juniper green, Currie, Balerno bit is We still
have an area called "station loan" at Balerno (were the train station
used to be for the line that ran up the Water of Leith). The Colinton
tunnel was also built for a train to go through.

I once went along the canal, trying to work out where the line joined
and where it left.

However, in an epiphany I sudden realised this might be how
trainspotteritis starts, so I quickly abandoned my search, before I
started sporting a thick parka and furiously scribbling train numbers
in a jotter. Some things are best left alone.

Angus

[Nick Leverton]

Post by a***@hotmail.com

Post by soup
The bit downstream of the visitor centre at Inglis green may well not be
but the part up at the Juniper green, Currie, Balerno bit is We still
have an area called "station loan" at Balerno (were the train station
used to be for the line that ran up the Water of Leith). The Colinton
tunnel was also built for a train to go through.

I once went along the canal, trying to work out where the line joined
and where it left.
However, in an epiphany I sudden realised this might be how
trainspotteritis starts, so I quickly abandoned my search, before I
started sporting a thick parka and furiously scribbling train numbers
in a jotter. Some things are best left alone.

The many closed lines to Leith and elsewhere around Edinburgh were
documented recently on the Britains_Lost_Railways mailing list.

Unfortunately Yahoogroups doesn't archive the attached pictures and maps,
but any local historians not petrified by the thought of considering
themselves as trainspotters can get an idea of their extent and their
current condition (including which ones form official pathways) with
the following search - probably requires joining the group first:
<http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Britains_Lost_Railways/msearch?SM=contains&ST=Closed+Lines+of+Edinburgh+>

Nick

[Ronald Raygun]

Post by a***@hotmail.com
I once went along the canal, trying to work out where the line joined
and where it left.

Why would the train line have joined or left the canal?

[Geoff Pearson]

Post by a***@hotmail.com

Post by Geoff Pearson
They won't carry many people in total and won't go anywhere that isn't
already better served by buses - quite useless and a waste of taxpayers'
cash.

Have you been to other European cities that use trams? Damned-sight
faster than buses, and well yes, they can go where buses can't go.
(Like old railway lines; Edinburgh's littered with them)
Angus

Only Strasbourg and Montpelier - where they installed systems that served
the communities rather than tram spotters.

[Cats]

On Sep 21, 5:46 pm, "Geoff Pearson" <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>

Post by Geoff Pearson
Only Strasbourg and Montpelier - where they installed systems that served
the communities rather than tram spotters.

Heresey!

[Dave]

Post by Geoff Pearson

Post by a***@hotmail.com

Post by Geoff Pearson
They won't carry many people in total and won't go anywhere that isn't
already better served by buses - quite useless and a waste of taxpayers'
cash.

Have you been to other European cities that use trams? Damned-sight
faster than buses, and well yes, they can go where buses can't go.
(Like old railway lines; Edinburgh's littered with them)
Angus

Only Strasbourg and Montpelier - where they installed systems that
served the communities rather than tram spotters.

Funny, because having used the one in Manchester during normal service
and then on another occasion when we had to use replacement bus
services to get to the same places. I can tell you the tram was a lot
quicker. And this is with a bus that didn't have to stop anywhere
else.

Also, the one in Amsterdam seems to do a good job of getting you
places quickly...

D

[Alasdair]

Post by a***@hotmail.com
Have you been to other European cities that use trams? Damned-sight
faster than buses, and well yes, they can go where buses can't go.
(Like old railway lines; Edinburgh's littered with them)
Angus

Living in Nottingham, I use the tram a lot because it has massive free
car parks at twp stops just a mile and two miles from the city centre.
I take the car to the tram stop and then the tram into town.

Are they proposing similar facilities for Edinburgh?

[charles]

Post by Geoff Pearson

Post by soup

Post by Paul Scott
The length of a two car railway train. All over the rail network
passengers are complaining that they aren't big enough.

There is a world of difference between a railway track and a city
centre street.
--
'S rioghal mo dhream
Ciamar a tha sibh
www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

They won't carry many people in total and won't go anywhere that isn't
already better served by buses - quite useless and a waste of taxpayers'
cash.

explain why "better served". The trams will have fewer stops and the
journey times, particularly to the ends of the routes will be shorter
than by bus.

[Geoff Pearson]

Post by charles

Post by Geoff Pearson

Post by soup

Post by Paul Scott
The length of a two car railway train. All over the rail network
passengers are complaining that they aren't big enough.

There is a world of difference between a railway track and a city
centre street.
--
'S rioghal mo dhream
Ciamar a tha sibh
www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

They won't carry many people in total and won't go anywhere that isn't
already better served by buses - quite useless and a waste of taxpayers'
cash.

explain why "better served". The trams will have fewer stops and the
journey times, particularly to the ends of the routes will be shorter
than by bus.
--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

so longer walks to stops - the trams run at the same speed as the buses so
longer overall journeys. And the route doesn't connect places with much
traffic - it is chosen because there were old railway lines - not because
passengers want to go those ways.

[charles]

Post by Geoff Pearson
so longer walks to stops - the trams run at the same speed as the buses

they may run faster and they won't waste time at stops so will be quicker.

Post by Geoff Pearson
so longer overall journeys. And the route doesn't connect places with
much traffic - it is chosen because there were old railway lines - not
because passengers want to go those ways.

and the old railway lines were built to serve people - they were only
closed for political reasons.

[a***@hotmail.com]

Post by Geoff Pearson
so longer walks to stops - the trams run at the same speed as the buses so
longer overall journeys. And the route doesn't connect places with much
traffic - it is chosen because there were old railway lines - not because
passengers want to go those ways.

Clearly these trams are a waste of time in your eyes, and you'll use
any hypthoesis to vindicate that. I'd have better luck with Daily
Record readers.

Unless you'd like to add a bit of substance to your arguments -- then
by all means, do.

Angus

[soup]

Post by charles

Post by Geoff Pearson
They won't carry many people in total and won't go anywhere that isn't
already better served by buses - quite useless and a waste of taxpayers'
cash.

explain why "better served".

Maybe one of the fewer stops will actually be in that area, after all if
there is no tram stop any sort of public transport will "better serve".

Post by charles
The trams will have fewer stops and the journey times, particularly
to the ends of the routes will be shorter than by bus.

So the time from Costorphine to Leith will be shorter but you cannot get
a tram from Haymarket to Shandwick place ( note I have no idea of the
actual stops but Charles says there will be fewer stops than there is now).

[The Good Doctor]

Post by Geoff Pearson
They won't carry many people in total and won't go anywhere that isn't
already better served by buses - quite useless and a waste of taxpayers'
cash.

Don't worry, it won't cost the Scots a penny. The English taxpayer
will provide, as usual.

And don't worry about value for money. Scotland doesn't go in for all
that economic analysis stuff. It's all about extracting as much money
as possible from the Treasury, and then it's Splash The Cash Time!

.

[Alasdair]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:58:13 +0100, "Geoff Pearson"

Post by Geoff Pearson
They won't carry many people in total and won't go anywhere that isn't
already better served by buses - quite useless and a waste of taxpayers'
cash.

Will they carry pensioners with free passes?

[Alasdair]

Post by soup
Ciamar a tha sibh

Tha gu math.

[Jack Campin - bogus address]

Post by David M
and why can't I anthropomorphise my vehicles if I want to? :)

You can take it a bit too far...

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/332081_slut18.html

I wonder what unfortunate acronym Edinburgh will come up with.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel [phone]
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax [phone]
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob [phone]

[Mark B]

Post by Jack Campin - bogus address

Post by David M
and why can't I anthropomorphise my vehicles if I want to? :)

You can take it a bit too far...
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/332081_slut18.html
I wonder what unfortunate acronym Edinburgh will come up with.

There is also the FART :)
http://swissrail.fotopic.net/p29638994.html

[Mike Roebuck]

Post by Mark B

Post by Jack Campin - bogus address

Post by David M
and why can't I anthropomorphise my vehicles if I want to? :)

You can take it a bit too far...
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/332081_slut18.html
I wonder what unfortunate acronym Edinburgh will come up with.

There is also the FART :)
http://swissrail.fotopic.net/p29638994.html

Italian acronyms don't count :-)